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Kong Question - Last tile - Can One Kong It?
From: Cofa Tsui
Subject: Re: Question about last tile Date: 13 Oct 1998 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <7008fj$9s5$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <36216255.57B11B8C@email.sjsu.edu> <36222E0A.45CEA732@email.sps.mot.com> <6vv346$n16@ask.diku.dk> <36235fbe.17951482@news.netvigator.com> X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x6.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 207.102.209.74 Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion X-Article-Creation-Date: Tue Oct 13 19:08:35 1998 GMT Newsgroups: rec.games.mahjong X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.05 [en] (Win95; I) In article <36235fbe.17951482@news.netvigator.com>, tarot@notme.netvigator.com (Alan Kwan) wrote: > On 13 Oct 1998 10:31:02 +0200, klaus@diku.dk (Klaus Ole Kristiansen) > wrote: > > >Steve Lin > >[snipped] > >How we play (Chinese Classical): if the last tile in the live wall is a bonus, > >the hand ends immediately. I don't see what else you could do, since there > >is no replacement tile available. The same thing happens if you make a kong > >with the last tile in the live wall, or claim a discard for kong after the > >live wall is exhausted, and the replacement is a bonus. > > Can one kong the last tile? I think one cannot kong because there are > no (playable) tiles in the wall left for a replacement. > (Can one kong the last tile?) I remember one game (I always remember THIS particular game!) which happened long time before I wrote the first version of the rule book of IMJ Rules: "There was only one tile remaining on the wall - We must draw to the last tile and the one who draws it must discard one tile (any tile). I (Cofa) was calling for a Red Dragon to complete the winning hand of the Thirteen Godess. It was Player A's turn to draw. (Believe me, I still remember his name!) He drew the last tile from the wall. After thinking for *quite* a while what tile he should discard to achieve a "safe landing", he, while smiling at me (he knew my hand was going to be a high score hand), made a set of concealed kong of 4 Red Dragon --- hoping this would end the game. W O W ! That's exactly made for me! Need not to say: I won on that Red Dragon with a lot of features to add up my scores: The Thirteen Godess; Robbing the Kong; Win on the last exposed-Kong. I received FULL scores from EACH player." I therefore believe, if you apply the "draw to the last tile" rule, you may either discard the last tile (any tile from your hand), or kong it. In this case, kong has the same effect as discard - other players can claim it. But kong is safer than discard, as NOT EVERYONE can claim a kong - However, theory does not necessarily apply to ALL cases! -- COFA TSUI 1998-10-13 Buy International Mahjong Rules, get LIFE-LONG membership http://www.cofatsui.com/mahjong.html (8a13a.) -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own *************************************End of message From: "Cofa Tsui" Subject: Re: Question about last tile Date: 16 Oct 1998 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <3627002c.0@carrera> References: <703v06$ihm$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <19981015162222.12914.00001485@ng90.aol.com> <3626752C.27BC2E2F@email.sps.mot.com> Newsgroups: rec.games.mahjong X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Steve Lin ????? <3626752C.27BC2E2F@email.sps.mot.com>... >> Cofa Tsui replied: >> >Yes, in IMJ Rules there is no "dead tile" on the wall. >> What are the purposes of the "dead tiles"? >ACTSEARCH wrote: >> *** Perhaps Steve's choice of the term "dead tile" has sparked a discussion on >> an unrelated topic. Steve clearly /means/ to refer to what is normally known >> as "loose tiles" -- in the West, we use the term "dead tile" to refer to a >> discard that is no longer available for play. > >I believe both Cofa and I are referring to the same thing, the 'loose tiles' >taken from the 'tail', or 'dead wall'. **Correct. My counter-argument is that there is a >big difference between random loose tiles and tiles kept by other players. >For example, one can usually observe a player going for 'pure color' and then >arrange to wait for a tile that he knows that particular player would discard. > The same goes with waiting for a wind or dragon tile, assuming all players >have melded sets (or if "13 Ghosts" is not recognized), and two of the four >tiles have already been discarded. In this case, anyone who picks up the >fourth tile (you have the third) would have to discard it, or 'land safely' >and give up his chance of winning. With the dead wall there's a good chance >that fourth tile may never show up. We are talking about removing 16/(39+16), >or 29% of the tile unavailable to a particular player. I think that's a >significant statistical difference. **You do have your point. However, as each Game progresses the strategies of players tend to change too. There are chances some players may keep all useless tiles in hand just for "safety" purposes. In that case many tiles will not show up too untill at the end of the Game. **I don't know why people tended to eliminate the "loose tiles" or "kong box" in that stage of my history of mahjong playing. In that stage, when negotiated at the beginning of each play, some players still felt more comfortable to keep the "loose tiles" but some players insisted without it. **I tend to support "zero dead wall" because if the "dead wall" serves as secret of some tiles, that secret could exist in /other/ players' hands. Besides, if all (or most) players are working on hands of very high rank, the use of all tiles would push the excitement to the highest possible level. It looks like only the NMJL and Western >styles evolved into a zero "dead wall" rule. >Cheers, >Steve **For your information, IMJ Rules has eliminated the "dead wall", too. -- COFA TSUI 1998-10-15 Enquire about your investment opportunity with International Mahjong (trademark registered) URL: http://www.cofatsui.com/mahjong.html Email: cofa@cofatsui.com *************************************End of message |
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